Forum:2013-01-04 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . ( ) ---- "How nice of you, Gil, but I am home!" Tarvek (talk) 07:00, January 4, 2013 (UTC) I still think that this is an imposter, or that the Baron has wasped Gil. Clearly, something is not right with the boy. Everyone noticed something about his demeanor when he first appeared on the rooftop. I think that its the way his eyes and expression are fixed--almost as though he is wearing a mask. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 08:24, January 4, 2013 (UTC) Were the robots a serious plan, or just a distraction so he could grab her? ("'Get her!' That was your whole plan, huh, 'get her.' Very scientific." --Peter Venkman) Argadi (talk) 10:19, January 4, 2013 (UTC) Tvtropes are hypothesising that Gil is testing Klaus' claims. If he can kidnap Agatha against her will, taking her somewhere that isn't Castle Wulfenbach, then he knows Klaus is lying and he isn't wasped. Unfortunately the only way to test this is to do something to Agatha by force. 14:42, January 4, 2013 (UTC) : If Klaus believes ''Gil is wasped, why send him alone to retrieve Agatha? Has he done something to Gil to alter his hearing? If Klaus ''knows ''Gil is not wasped, why try to convince him he is and '''then '''send him into a situation which would prove he isn't? And word of God (rumor has it) says Klaus does not know Lunevka can/is controlling him. But he does know Agatha can and clearly believes she 'IS 'the Other. AndyAB99 (talk) 22:42, January 4, 2013 (UTC) ::If Klaus had Gil wasped, then he ''would know, right? I cannot forget that Lunevka is aboard Castle Wulfenbach relatively unhampered and in control of Klaus. She was told by Lu-in-Agatha that she-and-she was in control of Klaus because he had been wasped, remember? Lunevka also knows that the copy of Lucretia that was downloaded into Agatha's brain is not fuctioning well. Therefore, she must have taken steps to offset the gains that Agatha and even Zola has made against her. For instance, she is now residing in a clank brain that rides around on what once was Anevka's body. That body almost certainly uses a tympanum in liue of a mechanical voice box. Tympanums can make any sound desired--thats why we can hear music over stereo sets, radios and televisions. I am theorizing heavily here, I know, but I think it likely that Lunevka has made subtle but recognizable changes to her command voice enabling her to ipmrint new victims on a version of her voice that neither Agath nor Zola has ever heard, so neither of them can emulate it accurately. That's how both she and Klaus could have complete confidence in sending a newly wasped Gil out to kidnap Agatha. Anevka expects him to comply like a robot, but Klaus likely knows better. He has already been caring out her orders in the least efficient manner that he possibly can. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 02:07, January 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::This whole "imprinting" thing has a problem. It is based on a single line by Anevka, not Lunevka or anyone else. But, as Dimo points out, Anevka has Agathas voice. That's what her voice box has been tuned to. I have the feeling that the authors didn't intend a strict interpretation.Or not necessarily imprinted on just her voice.Also, I think you're over complicating things and over thinking this. The authors have shown slop before, such as, reconnecting Lunevka to the 'casket' then forgetting it in her next appearance. AndyAB99 (talk) 11:22, January 5, 2013 (UTC) :::::Of course, you could be correct. I am not saying that my predictions will necessarily come true. And, yes, I have been puzzled by the absence of Anevka's casket on the later pages as well. Someone as smart as Lucrezia should have twigged that the Baron would be suspicious of Anevka minus her casket, right? But wait, Lunevka knows that Klaus has been infected with a wasp. Do you see what I am driving at here? I'm just guessing. There are so many possible variables that anything could happen next. Personally, I am expecting Gil to carry Agatha off to parts unknown whereupon after their arrival, wherever and whenever they go, for her to turn the tables on him. There is that trans-dimensional window business to worry about, you know. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 12:02, January 5, 2013 (UTC) Billy, I think that it's already been established about a million times that something's not right with him. He's acting like a jerk, and who knows why! I think that the mask theory is interesting, but I don't know. :Partial answer inserted above. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 09:26, January 5, 2013 (UTC) Someone I know said that he might be "burning his bridges to create a smokescreen." He's effectively sabatoging all his relationships in order to hide what he's really up to, according to the theory. Also, he said he would take Agatha "home", but who's home? Obviously not Mechanicsburg, they're already there. (Of course, it could be all an illusion, none of it is real, and she strapped to a table while people are doing weird stuff with her head. But what are the chances?) It could be Castle Wulfenbach, but somehow I don't think so. It could be refferencing some other place that either Gil or Agatha once, or still do, regard as their home. Beetleburg? Nah. Paris? Hmm.... Some previously unknown location? Totally. HeterodyneGirl (talk) 16:01, January 4, 2013 (UTC) Hmm. I still don't care if Gil is playing some brilliant double game to save everybody. Time for Agatha to repeatedly slam the World's head againt the table until they admit she has everything under control! Great Cthulhu (talk) 17:55, January 4, 2013 (UTC) I think that the little Gil vs Agatha encounter has gone on a little too long to be unnoticed. Time for intervention from somebody, but who? Der Kestle? Tarvek, or Zeetha, or Violetta, or Krosp? The Seneschal? The Baron (or Baron's man)? Dupree, or Vole? Tweedle dum? HeterodyneGirl (talk) 23:31, January 5, 2013 (UTC) I still think Der Kestle will intervene. And I think Gil appears to be acting strangely because we've never seen him act in fear of his father. Klaus knowingly faked evidence that Gil is wasped to get him to become unsure of himself and mistrustful of Agatha+Tarvek, and succeeded. Gil is afraid he might lose the empire either by being considered unfit qua wasped or because the empire falls apart. He's also afraid of losing Agatha to Klaus' military might, and (to be fair) wants to avoid war because that's the right thing to do. So now he's acting out of family loyalty, hunger for power, and fear, which is totally in character, except a part of character he never showed while he was secure in his position. (Not by accident, it's in character for me to point this out. :) ) Why Klaus has sent Gil to get Agatha I can't really tell -- probably he knows that's his best chance to actually get hold of Agatha -- but he might have other plans, on which I speculated earlier -- a pretext that's convincing to Zola+Lunevka to get Gil away from the castle as long as they are controling the Baron. Andy & Billy -- re: Lunevka etc. (1) I agree with Andy that the analysis of "imprinting" is a case of overanalysis (or as I prefer to call it, attention surplus disorder :) ). (2) Andy, you say rumor has it Klaus doesn't know Lunevka is controling him. How then to explain the next-to-last frame here? (3) Billy, AFAIK Lunevka doesn't know that Lu-in-Zola is compromised and controlled by Zola. (4) The reason Lunevka doesn't have the casket is because the Anevka-head clank needed it as a connection to her former biological identity, which the Lucrezia-head clank doesn't need. -- Tarvek (talk) 03:43, January 6, 2013 (UTC) :I know for certain that Lunevka knows about the version of her downloaded into Agatha being compromised and faulty. Since you brought up your doubts about her knowing of Luzola's condition, I will check, but I beilieve that she must know about that flawed copy as well. Remember the hospital scene wherein Lunevka discusses Zola's condition with herself? Also, I am certain that Tarvek explained Anevka's condition to the being inhabiting her original head prior to turning her off. She asked him what she was and he ansewered, "A first try." He then put the new head with Lucrezia already downloaded into it on Anevka's artificial body.-- Billy Catringer (talk) 05:40, January 6, 2013 (UTC) ::Yes, from what I remember I think Luzola played it beautifully and never let on to Lunevka that there may be a risk of Zola pulling the strings. Luzola warned Lunevka about Lu-in-Agatha being compromised, but said she copied herself right over Zola, "neat as you please" which certainly wasn't the case. As for the casket, you're right, Anevka-head did learn about not being Anevka, but only after realizing she was disconnected from the casket, which precipitated her crisis of identity. The new Lucrezia-head neither needs an illusion of a biological identity, nor the casket. (Hmm, you can see that I re-read this recently :D ) Tarvek (talk) 06:28, January 6, 2013 (UTC) ::So, if it was really Lu- Zola in the hospital, then she would have warned about Zola's neural trap, and also about Loremistress Misvistle, probably. On the other hand, if Zola was in control, that would mean panels three through five were just a ploy to see if there was a Lucrezia in the vicinity. Unlikely. However, maybe it went like this: Zola flew away from Der Kestle and was rendered unconcious by her various injuries. Then, like Agatha without the locket, Lucrezia gained control when she woke. However, it was shortlived, and Zola got the neural trap going again so that she could trick Lunevka. Does that work for everyone? HeterodyneGirl (talk) 18:18, January 6, 2013 (UTC) :::No, why? There is no evidence that Lucrezia ever was in control of Zola. Zola's behavior is consistent with acting on her own for the whole time, she just laments about her body being too weak to deal with Movit, flight and hospital security. Sine Wave Herder (talk) 22:22, January 6, 2013 (UTC) :::Agreed with Sine Wave Herder that Zola is fully in control, without need for further hypotheses (by Occam's razor). I'd even say that Lucrezia is largely speaking in her own character in the hospital (which is why I described her as "Luzola"), but with Zola firmly holding the leash and directing what she can say. Tarvek (talk) 23:00, January 6, 2013 (UTC) :::Ok last thought before the new page, i think the castle is going to make a major move to retrieve Agatha, it cant let anyone take its only reason for existance. Agathahetrodyne (talk) 01:23, January 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::I think that Lunevka was doing her in the hospital. Remember, Lucrezia has already . Suspicion comes naturally to Lucretia--she needed it to survive. She expects people to lie to her and has become skilled at recognizing the signs of lying. -- Billy Catringer (talk) 15:35, January 7, 2013 (UTC) :::::Why do people keep spelling it Lucretia instead of Lucrezia? HeterodyneGirl (talk) 23:13, January 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::::As far as I know there are three ways to spell that name and they are easily confused. There is Lurectia, the heorine from Roman legend, there is Lucrezia, as in Lucrezia Borga and there is also Lucrecia, which is yet another transliteration of Lucretia. The three are easily confused. ::::::By the way, Lucrezia Borgia was the very nasty piece of work, or is portrayed that way by historians, whom Lucrezia Mongfish is modelled after. Also, Wild Billy Hickock named his favorite gun after the infamous courtesan.-- Billy Catringer (talk) 00:58, January 8, 2013 (UTC) ::::::: also, on some keyboards, the Z is next to the T. Finn MacCool (talk) 18:43, January 8, 2013 (UTC)